Show Us Your Joint

Bob Connor · Post by **Bob Connor** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:45 pm

Bob Marley would be proud of those joints

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:48 pm

Paul what's the "ancient" looking wood on your heel? Lovely!

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:33 am

Arnt, i still have those beautiful mandolin pics of yours, i can feel a resurgence of the need to build a mando again, we'll have to have a mando section here too in the near future me thinks!

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:41 am

I am upset because Matt's joint is bigger than mine..........

Man - title a thread like this one and everyone has something to add....

Rod (you dork

) that is a shadow and not a stinkin gap...... But because you brought it up I had to unpack the packed guitar and check it all out........

Anyway this one is out of here tomorrow morning and I can start something else then. The problem is that I have very little desire at the moment to build anything...... Maybe I need a break it's been 14 guitars in 3 years now with no letting up....

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:16 am

I'm surprised that we didn't see any remarks on what people inhale Mon!

Hesh, WOW, i'll stop posting and get back to that shop, got some catching up to do, ciao!

Rod True · Post by **Rod True** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:37 am

Rod (you dork ) that is a shadow and not a stinkin gap...... But because you brought it up I had to unpack the packed guitar and check it all out........

Ah...........success :bum

Anyway this one is out of here tomorrow morning and I can start something else then. The problem is that I have very little desire at the moment to build anything...... Maybe I need a break it's been 14 guitars in 3 years now with no letting up....

The beach in Cancun is sounding pretty good right about now eh. I think a break might be a good idea. maybe you should start writing that book

[/quote]

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:05 am

:bh

Hesh, you call 'em your "stinkin" guitars but we love 'em all!

Rod, tu es incorrigible!

Rod True · Post by **Rod True** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:16 am

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:04 am

matthew wrote:Paul what's the "ancient" looking wood on your heel? Lovely!

Just some tassy blackwood, same as the back.

Dennis Leahy · Post by **Dennis Leahy** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:31 am

Wow, Hesh, Matt, Arnt, and Paul!

You roll nice joints!

Very clean work!

Dennis

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:56 am

Actually, I've decided to rip that neck off and make another one. I picked up that guitar yesterday for the first time in months (and that's got to be telling, all by itself). I don't like the neck at all, too wide at the nut, and not enough V. Uncomfortable to play, and too much hassle to alter the existing one. Easier just to build another neck.

The guitar did sound surprisingly good tho, sparkly trebles and good bass, very balanced across the strings. The soundboard is bellying after only a year or less, it's braced about as lightly as I dared, so we might have the first example (that I've seen on a forum anyway) of a guitar that is so lightly braced it implodes. This is John How's 'jumbo parlor' design, 14" lower bout, 1/4" bracing just about everywhere on the top (except the tranverse brace). Did I say it sounds good?

Sounds so good it's well worth the hassle of making a new neck, even if it does implode, tho if it hasn't allready it probably won't soon.

If it does implode I'll do a post mortem here and we can try to find out what failed and why. Never know we might learn something.

Serge · Post by **Serge** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:45 pm

You're a courageous man bro!

But i guess it's worth the effort and if it has not imploded yet, my guess is it won't either so go for the neck mate!

Rod True · Post by **Rod True** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:25 pm

Hey Paul, you got a picture of the top which is so lightly braced?

I moved my post here just so this topic stays on topic.

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:31 pm

I don't seem to have a pic of the bracing on my work computer, I'll have a look when I get home and see what I can turn up. Might at least take a pic of the bellying.

Dennis Leahy · Post by **Dennis Leahy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:08 pm

Here are a couple of shots of an adjustable neck joint, at a compound cutaway. One shot (the non-cutaway side) is not quite even "in the white" but more in progress, and the other shot is from the cutaway side. The neck is let into the body by about .100", and the cutaway side has to have binding that the neck slides behind (to allow the neck to be adjusted.)

Gotta leave just enough room so that when finish is applied, it won't scrape the side as the neck is adjusted.

Not quite as smooth a transition as when the neck flows straight into the cutaway, but not bad looking and mighty functional.

This is a Grant Goltz engineered adjustable neck joint, just a bit different than the others out there.

Dennis

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:00 pm

Dennis,

Nice work M8, I have been impressed by Grant's adjustable neck system since he showed it to us a couple of years back. It realy is very interesting and strikes me as being a simple yet effective approach to an age old problem, and these simple solutions seem always to be the best. His laminated curved top bracing system is quite amazing as well, and as with most thing that the man does, it is truly unique and very well thought out.

I would realy like to see Grant sharing a few of his Pictorial tutes here at the ANZLF for us all to see. He has some truly innovative ideas and skills to share and as you are well aware, he has that special knack for presenting them clearly and with detail, yet with a humbleness and grace befitting the gentleman he is.

Let him know of the ANZLF when the freeze forces him back into the workshop, I am sure we would welcome, appreciate and benefit from his input.

Cheers

Kim

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:49 pm

What's adjustable in that neck joint? Height, or angle?

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:13 pm

The Angle is adjustable via bolts in the neck block. The fretboard and extension is floating and free of the soundboard, it is let into the guitar top and the heel of the neck pivots back into the neck block as it is adjusted and is let into the sides of the guitar.

The mechanism is held in tension via purpose built, curved spring steel washers that were once sections of bandsaw blade but have now been shaped, drilled, bent, and re-tempered to provide the required load.

As mentioned above, I am hoping that Grant will join us in the not too distant future to share his technique for putting this together.

Cheers

Kim

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:34 pm

Does this replace the traditional adjustable truss rod then?

what is the advantage of this adjustment?

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:42 pm

Dennis , your work is exceptional . Beautiful craftsmanship and great taste.
I also love innovative ideas . Bravo mate !

Kim · Post by **Kim** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:04 pm

matthew wrote:Does this replace the traditional adjustable truss rod then?

what is the advantage of this adjustment?

No, the truss rod remains to adjust the relief in the neck. This adjustment sets the neck angle, you can use it to set the action to where ever you like, and it also totally eliminates the need to worry about any requirement to reset the neck down the track as the angle can be altered to where you like it in just a few minutes.

I think from here it is best to wait and hope that Grant himself will tune in some time down the track and explain things in more detail. I am sure Dennis could do a great job explaining things, however I think as it is Grant's baby, and I believe he already has the required images and such at hand to give all the detail we need, it would just be respectful for us to wait and see if he will join us.

Cheers

Kim

Paul B · Post by **Paul B** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:25 pm

Matt, how do you handle that sort of thing in the double bass/violin world?

That double bass must carry a fair bit of tension in the strings.

Hesh1956 · Post by **Hesh1956** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:14 pm

Dennis after seeing your joint I feel inadequate.........

Beautiful craftsmanship M8!

Dennis Leahy · Post by **Dennis Leahy** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:44 pm

Kim wrote:The Angle is adjustable via bolts in the neck block. The fretboard and extension is floating and free of the soundboard, it is let into the guitar top and the heel of the neck pivots back into the neck block as it is adjusted and is let into the sides of the guitar.

The mechanism is held in tension via purpose built, curved spring steel washers that were once sections of bandsaw blade but have now been shaped, drilled, bent, and re-tempered to provide the required load.

As mentioned above, I am hoping that Grant will join us in the not too distant future to share his technique for putting this together.

Cheers

Kim

Kim's right, the fingerboard is floating above the soundboard. It's difficult to see, because in this particular guitar, the gap is so small (less than 1/32" or .03" or about .8mm if my math is correct.)

When I studied Grant's adjustable neck engineering, I couldn't tell why he had included a spring between the lower neck bolt between the neck tenon and the mortise pocket, so I didn't put one in. Seems to work fine without it - even during string changes.

I included that adjustable neck in my guitar for several reasons:

I have experimental bracing, and was not sure where the top of the saddle would really end up when at full tension. (I could guess at the proper neck angle, but this allowed me to adjust it after coming to full tension and settling in.), and
because I had read that a neck reset was "inevitable" on a lightly braced steel string guitar and figured I'd rather twist a bolt than do a neck reset to change the neck set angle if and when necessary, and finally
because I thought there would be more surface area of the soundboard vibrating if the fingerboard was not glued to the top. Plus, it allowed me to omit an upper transverse brace.

Kim's also right that this is Grant's baby, and that he should be allowed to explain it in detail, in its own thread. Maybe he could be convinced to offer it as a tutorial and post it here. (Grant is very open and generous.)

Since it was my one and only neck joint, I thought I'd post it. Thanks Kim, Craig, and Hesh. Hesh, your joints are very impressive! Whenever you decide to include an adjustable neck, I'm certain that joint will be equally impressive. I look at Arnt's mandolin neck joint and just start mumbling...

Dennis

matthew · Post by **matthew** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:05 am

A double bass has no frets, and the scoop is planed into the fingerboard. No truss rod at all.

String height is typically adjusted with screw adjusters set into the feet of the bridge.

Some makers make necks with adjustable rake, but most basses are set up as above.

Each string has about 70lbs tension longways, and about 15lbs into the top.

So the bass top has to support about 60lbs.

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