Open Grain Satin Lacqured Finish?

[stevec1234]

Hey Guys,

I am new to this forum. I had a login in just prior to the crash but didn't really post. I was referred here in regard to a vacuum pump and after looking around and seeing what you guys do I am quite impressed. Now I am not a guitar builder, I am a circles man. I build ply snare drums mainly with aussie hardwoods. I have attached a picture of one of my recent shells which went over to Canada. It is a spotted gum shell with a new age reconstructed veneer on the outer ply.

I have been experimenting with Nitro lacquer (Excelac from Sherwood Paints in Melbourne). I am trying to achieve the open grain satin finish which is on most Maton and Coal Clark guitars.
I have been sanding the shells to 240 grit shooting 3 coats of lacquer and sanding lightly with 400 grit in between coats and wet sanding to 800 grit after the finish has been cured though I am not getting the finish which I desire.

Currently I am not thinning the lacquer and I am not using a sealer. One of the tech support staff at Sherwood Paints said thinner was not needed and to use the excelac as it's own sealer.

So at the moment I have been searching and searching on how to get the nice natural open grain satin lacquered finish but I am not finiding and useful information. I was hoping if any of you guys with experience with this type of finish could chime in and point me in the right direction? I haven't had the most experience with lacquers so any tips from prep through to final sanding would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Guys.

Steve

[rocket]

Steve,, nice looking shell there , how does it sound
I've made a few sticks of furniture in the past, posted a pic on here but prob lost in the crash, any how i used to get a similar finish you are describing. Using a few coats of clear polyurethane, fine sand between, after the last coat, fine sand about 240 and then aply some teak oil using a pad of steel wool rub off excess with soft cloth. What you are left with would be described as an open grain smooth satin finish. Of course it does depend on the species of timber as to how open the grain is. Hope this is of some help.
Cheers,,, Rod.

[stevec1234]

Steve,, nice looking shell there , how does it sound
I've made a few sticks of furniture in the past, posted a pic on here but prob lost in the crash, any how i used to get a similar finish you are describing. Using a few coats of clear polyurethane, fine sand between, after the last coat, fine sand about 240 and then aply some teak oil using a pad of steel wool rub off excess with soft cloth. What you are left with would be described as an open grain smooth satin finish. Of course it does depend on the species of timber as to how open the grain is. Hope this is of some help.
Cheers,,, Rod.

Thanks Rod, The shells actually produce a nice tone when you give them a light thump while suspended on your finger. I have been pleased with the finished products, spotted gum has a very unique sound.

Thanks for the suggestion, I might as well give that process a try with the nitro. Do you think I may get the finish I am after by shooting one light coat of sealer and a light coat of nitro. The guitars I have seen with the finish I want have almost felt like bare wood though there is a thin lacquer coating there.

Us drummers are a little slow...

[jeffhigh]

Perhaps you should be looking at satin rather than gloss lacquer.
Most of us have no trouble getting grain to show, especially when we dont want it to.
Not too much build, no level sanding between coats, you should be fine

[stevec1234]

Perhaps you should be looking at satin rather than gloss lacquer.
Most of us have no trouble getting grain to show, especially when we dont want it to.
Not too much build, no level sanding between coats, you should be fine

Hi Jeff,

The Excelac I got is a 10% gloss, I think next time around I am going to grab 20% becuase the matting agents create a slight haze in the finish.

[graham mcdonald]

Mirotone make a lacquer in various degrees of satin/flatness. I use a 10% gloss for a satin finish with just a hint of shininess to it. Two lots of three coats over two days, then cut back any gritty bits, dead insects and the like with 280grit and then shoot a couple of coats of thinner. Nothing more to be done.

cheers

graham

[stevec1234]

Mirotone make a lacquer in various degrees of satin/flatness. I use a 10% gloss for a satin finish with just a hint of shininess to it. Two lots of three coats over two days, then cut back any gritty bits, dead insects and the like with 280grit and then shoot a couple of coats of thinner. Nothing more to be done.

cheers

graham

Thanks Graham, Can you please explain the purpose of shooting thinner? or a you referring to a thinned mix of the lacquer?

[graham mcdonald]

The straight thinners just even out the surface in look and feel. Effectively they are re-dissolving the surface of the lacquer and then drying evenly. Don't spray too thick a coating thinners as it can run a bit and make some marks. It's not my idea, I got it from Greg Smallman 25 years ago.

cheers

[Allen]

I've not sprayed the lacquer you are talking about, but virtually all lacquers come too thick out of the can for instrument use. For instance the Mirotone that many of us use I cut 100% with a blend of thinner and 5 - 10% retarder.

Thin it out and the finish will suck into the wood much better. Gives you better adhesion and won't clog up the pores that you are wanting to show off.

[stevec1234]

Thanks Allan!

With your projects what will you usually level sand to after the final coat?

[DarwinStrings]

G'day and welcome Steve. You should find the answer to your last question here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=343 This is Allen's spray tutorial and is a great read if you are new or old to spraying even though it does not go into the type of finish you want.

Jim

Life is good when you are amongst the wood

[stevec1234]

G'day and welcome Steve. You should find the answer to your last question here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=343 This is Allen's spray tutorial and is a great read if you are new or old to spraying even though it does not go into the type of finish you want.

Jim

Life is good when you are amongst the wood

Thanks for the welcome Jim and thanks for the link. I will give the thread a thorough read over when I get home from work.

I managed to get a few pics of the ideal finish I am after. Hopefully this makes everything a little clearer.

Thanks for everyones input so far.

P.S. this finish will not be used on shell originally posted. That shell had a reconstructed veneer on it and I want to use this finish on natural veneers.

Thanks

Steve

[Allen]

Getting that look is a piece of piss. Getting the flat, level gloss without the pores showing is where everyone struggles.

I only every spray gloss, but you'd be looking at cutting the lacquer very thin. Do not do anything that will fill the pores.

What you are seeing in the instruments that you describe is the quickest, easiest way to get a finish on. Those instruments are made to a price point and no time or product is wasted in achieving that finish. Keep that in mind when you are going about trying to recreate it.

In short, if there is a way to extend the finish with something cheap like thinners, then it's done. If there is some way to not have to waste time and product filling pores, then that is also on the table. What you end up with is a finish that just coats the surface without any pretence on being anything other than a bit of protection to bare wood.

[stevec1234]

Getting that look is a piece of piss. Getting the flat, level gloss without the pores showing is where everyone struggles.

I only every spray gloss, but you'd be looking at cutting the lacquer very thin. Do not do anything that will fill the pores.

What you are seeing in the instruments that you describe is the quickest, easiest way to get a finish on. Those instruments are made to a price point and no time or product is wasted in achieving that finish. Keep that in mind when you are going about trying to recreate it.

In short, if there is a way to extend the finish with something cheap like thinners, then it's done. If there is some way to not have to waste time and product filling pores, then that is also on the table. What you end up with is a finish that just coats the surface without any pretence on being anything other than a bit of protection to bare wood.

Thanks Allen, My main use for this finish is for the inside of my shells. I prefer to not have the pores filled on the inside of the shell. If you have a filled flat surfaces on the inside of the drum shell it becomes reflective a contributes to creating more ring in the drum. At the moment I am having a few shells sprayed with 2k poly for a fully choked finish for the out side of the shell (I am not shooting the poly). Seeing as I will be thinning the lacquer so much would you suggest sanding after the final coat?

[Allen]

It really depends on the look you are going for and how well you apply it. For a minimalist look you could go with 3 -5 coats thinned 100%. Let dry and very lightly sand back with something like P400 dry. Then 1 more coat of the same mix, or as Graham suggested just with thinners.

I would try the last coat with just the thinners, as you have nothing to go wrong doing this. If it works out the way you are wanting it, you're done. If not you can always spray another coat of lacquer.

[stevec1234]

Thanks Allen.

I will hopefully try it out in the next day or two. I will post the results when I can.